Forum:
Hi all .
I would like to bring all the discussion about this together. So if you have posted previously, cut and paste or re post. This issue is being picked up on many sites around the world. Just put in your browser "2t oil and diesel" or similar and read the hits. Okay , it may be a urban rumour/myth, or it may have some truth.
The question - Is it benificial to add what is sold as the oil mix for 2 Stroke petrol engines to the low sulphur diesel sold these days.
Have you used it, why !!, at what rate/mix ratio and have you noted any benifits, percieved or real, any comments as to what is posted on other sites and add links to these.
Lets have some vibrant disscusion on this subject.
Link
This is the link provided previously by Parrot which has a very extensive discussion of the subject.
http://www.freel2.com/forum/topic878.html
David T
hmm...
...interesting. I'm a bit concerned that it seems to have a bucket load of benefits and no downsides...then again I'm always suspicious of things like that...there's no such thing as a free lunch. That discussion is talking about the TD4 engine, which is much more modern and would be manufactured to tighter tolerances than the Fourtrak 2.8 TD...would a little more oil in the tank really help? Would be good if someone could test this...I would be tempted, but I need my 'Trak 7 days a week.
No such thing as a free lunch !!!
Hi.
If you browse/search the web its all manner of Diesel engined trucks,including sites for what we in the UK call HGV's , on many web sites, not just the one the original post appeared. the original post was was placed in June 2007, by a lawyer working for the EEC or whatever its called today. But no one has hard real data !!!it's all assumption/percieved, lets find/see some hard facts.
Edward (ews) '92 Fourtrak 2.8 TDX
This is pure rubbish as it is
This is pure rubbish as it is not the moving parts themselves which are attacked, but the seals and rubbers used within injection systems. In certain climates this would be beneficial, but not the modern countries around the world, or Europe. This is for several reasons: fuel quality varies in many of these third world countries, and is often mixed with other local rubbish to extend it.
European fuels all have to meet exacting criteria, these being the standards to which car manufacturers design and build their products, so a coherent standard for all to work to. This is why 5% bio fuel content was introduced, it meant the diesel would work with very few problems as it was gradually introduced and raised from 5% to whatever, over a long period of time.
Diesel is an oil, petrol is a spirit; two stroke is designed to mix with petrol as it breaks it down and dissolves it, diesel does not break it down. To dissolve 2 stroke in diesel (oil) would take a considerable time, so it does not properly mix.
This idea was mooted around several years ago during the trials with bio diesel, and no amount of testing could prove any benefits. Such testing involved many other lubricants and not just diesel/2 stroke mixes. Many results found clogging and the build up of 2 stroke oils was actually too much for the fine tolerances of diesel injection equipment and led to poorer running, and increased emissions.
My professional opinion is that despite numerous testing there is no proof of the benefits of mixing 2 stroke oil with diesel. There is much evidence to suggest the contrary.
Modern diesel contains everything for an engine to run effectively and efficiently, and will continue to do so for many years. Just apply a little simple logic; if it was so beneficial the fuel manufacturers would have incorporated it into their fuels. This would have ben much cheaper than many years of testing compounds which are much more expensive for them to manufacture, buy, then blend.
Glad you commented assassin
To me, your the sort of person who really does know what there talking about, taking into account of your history, i should imagine the lack of engine knocking and rattles that occurs using 2 stroke is because there is so much oil building up inside, from the point of view of knowing 2 stroke engines like i personally do (garden equipment) if excess oil is used A: you get excess smoke build up out the exhaust and B: you increase the clogging of a carburettor.
but one thing that still interests me is the sulphur/fuel efficiency part of the discussion, any light on this??
Full of ideas but no time to do them!!
www.bloodredoffroad.com
www.milneroffroad.com
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youtube: Redfourtrack
I've heard stories of
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I've heard stories of supermarket fuels causing problems ever since they all moved into filling stations. I don't know if there is any truth in it though.
I bought some 2 stroke oil today(5l-
i use it and im the one who
i use it and im the one who said about it on here in the first place,i have used it for 2 months now and my truck has less knocks or rattles and next to no smoke,i get about 28mpg and thats with a pump tweek,i use 220ml 2 stroke,26.7L of derv and 12L of new cooking oil per week.
read the link first before you decide on useing 2 stroke but i feel that as this is a new subject and people are unsure about it i will just say cooking oil!! how many people said it wont work or it will kill your pump or injectors but now everyones useing it.
i recommend useing it but its down to you to decide weather to try it or not.
as for the fuel compneys not putting it in before they sale it is down to cost,1L of derv is
2T additive data
Hi all.
First of all I have an open mind on this issuse .
Big BUT here, I for one would like to see the results of a long term test, complete with a strip down of the engine and fuel pump/injectors assembly, this happened when the Veg Oil saga took root, the comments by "assassin" do hold re the research done.
Browsing the web. I have come across some disasters, where the addition of the 2T oil has caused major problems with the injection system and ECU in more modern trucks, though the Fourtrak has a more tolerant system being a mechanical system. Untill some one posts re a long term test and has strip down results it really is your own percieved impressions.
The post which started all of this is
http://www.freel2.com/forum/topic878.html
BUT no details of engine/fuel system wear, or real hard data re fuel use , ect, just a lawyer, albit a techy one, she seems to work/has worked for the EEC and has access to documents, ect, which she has leaked presumed details and the idea/suggestion has grown like Topsy, all around the world. No proof /data, just this original post started all this, she claims she has run this mix/addition to prove it, but no real data!!!
Edward (ews) '92 Fourtrak 2.8 TDX
was recommended to add 100ml
was recommended to add 100ml per 35l of derv. Also to use the low ash formula oil.
Am currently trialling this mix.....so will be able to report back with results in a while.
First impressions is that economy has improved.
Person who recommended it suggested it would improve economy, aid cold starting and refresh the seals. Not sure if any or some of this is bollix, we'll see.
'94 Fourtrak Independent
Beware
Hi all.
Not sure if the quantity stated, will stain the diesel. it seems available as a red or green oil. here may lie a problem. In the UK red stained diesel is reduced tax fuel for agri use or similar, and I believe in Ireland the similar rebated fuel is stained green. ( and Irish rebated fuel is found in the UK) It may be on initial dipping the colour may show, if found you would loose your truck,it would be impounded, though full testing would not show the tracer which is added to rebated fuel, though I think you still would have some explaining to do to the C+E boys.
If any one reguires info on Veg Oil/Bio Diesel read this post in the "How it Works" section, top of page. But do not post on this thread, lets keep this to references to 2 Stroke Oil as an additive.
http://www.daihatsu-drivers.co.uk/biofuel
Edward (ews) '92 Fourtrak 2.8 TDX
i use the red stuff and i was
i use the red stuff and i was worred it would change the derv to red but after doing a fuel filter change the derv was the same as when i get it at tescos but will change to the green stuff just incase.
like i will say all the time on this subject its down to you to decide if its for you
can any one point me in the
can any one point me in the direction of some bad reports on this as ive just spent 20 mins doing a google search and nothing bad has come up
I see we have a similar
I see we have a similar situation to the issue with veg oil, many conflicting reports from people. This is what led me to write this article to dispel the myths and give people the plain facts without bias or prejudice.
Costs: decocted synthetic additives are expensive to manufacture, two stroke is not when it is produced on such a scale. It currently is sold in small quantities around the world due to burgeoning emissions and clean air standards. If it was manufactured to the scale as required by diesel fuel additive standards it would be around 40% cheaper than adding decocted synthetic additives.
Diesel is an oil, this lubricates the moving components in an injection system, it is designed to do that and the system is manufactured so it does exactly that, lubricate.
Most testing was abandoned as it became obvious that 2 stroke was not beneficial, so why spend money on something which will not work, and is proven not to work. This is why there is very little data published, only initial research projects findings.
2 stroke is designed to mix in petrol by its very composition, it is trying to mix oil with oil, so does mix but not effectively and takes a long time. Unlike engine oils, it is not subjected to immense pressures and heat which is what makes oils mix, it only circulates back to tank.
Those with worn engines may see a slight benefit, this will only be short term before it begins to gum up and damage seals and fine tolerances. If it is reverted back to a plain diesel fuel the problems will begin to show. Testing was done with synthetic 2 stroke oils, not mineral variants so there are more problems looming if mineral is used.
A search can be done on the American Petroleum Institute to find more information.
can you put up a link that
can you put up a link that says it does not work as every site ive been on says it does and at the moment it is only you that says it does not work,also they say that 2 stroke burns better then diesel even on its own
It is not me saying this, it
It is not me saying this, it is the experts who have tried and tested it.
yes you keep saying that now
yes you keep saying that now prove it give us a link or something