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Hey all, ive always noticed my fourtrak shakes a little on tickover usually after a trip on the motorway or when it gets hot, but recently the car is not starting very well, seems smoky (black smoke) also shakes a lot on tickover now even when cold (shaking goes off at about 900rpm) and not sure if its my imagination but also feels underpowered/hesitant especially before the turbo kicks in.. anyone got any ideas?
cheers in advance
have you checked oil? doo you
have you checked oil? doo you loose/use water?
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Low rev engine shake
If the problem is not irregular engine running, you might look at engine and exhaust mountings. If weak or faulty they would alter the resonant frequency of the engine on its mountings, slightly temperature dependant.
Try letting the clutch out gently at very low revs and see if the engine rocks worse than it should.
YRV Tony
Low rev engine shake
If the problem is not irregular engine running, you might look at engine and exhaust mountings. If weak or faulty they would alter the resonant frequency of the engine on its mountings, slightly temperature dependant.
Try letting the clutch out gently at very low revs and see if the engine rocks worse than it should.
YRV Tony
Its not the glowplugs, its
Its not the glowplugs, its the fuel injectors. The glow plugs only use power upon starting to heat them, once the engine is running the compression heat keeps them hot.
Black smoke gives the game away, the injector pintles (the tips) are worn and not giving a good atomisation, or spray pattern. This means unburned fuel is exiting the cylinders into the exhaust.
Best whip it down to a good diesel injection specialist who reconditions injectors, they will recon them in a couple of hours.
hmmmm no disagree on that, a
hmmmm no disagree on that, a diesal specialist first is a Big investment, changing to a new set of glow plugs to elimanate cold starting is ALOT cheaper, if glow plugs are not working correctly a diesal engine WILL knock baddly on starting and judder.
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black smoke is partially
black smoke is partially burnt diesel so its over fueling or not burning it right.
white smoke is unburnt fuel.
what fuel are you runing it on??
what fourtrak is it??if its a late f78 with a egr valve that may need cleaning or better still blanking off.
also im with red,put a set of glow plugs in it,it wont hurt and winter is coming so they may need it anyway
Hi, im running it on shell
Hi, im running it on shell white diesel, nothing else and its a 1994 f78 intercooler
cheers
when was the last time you
when was the last time you had the fuel filter changed??
when was the last time you had a new air filter fitted??
what rpm can you feel your turbo come in??
another thing to look at is the transferbox mount as that may be broken not that that will help with the power problem
I think people need to read
I think people need to read the post properly.
He has always had this when the engine is HOT.
He has only RECENTLY had problems starting from cold.
The problem is the injectors break pressure being too low, and the incorrect spray pattern from worn pintles.
Reconditioned injectors cost around £20-30 for a Fourtrak engine, so are not expensive. If it was the glow plugs it would have always have been difficult to start, and very smoky on start up.
who knows
who knows, but I like to doo the easy process of problem elimination first.
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i take it thats £20-£30 per
i take it thats £20-£30 per injector??
the glow plugs may have only just had one go down and NOW thats why he is having problems from cold
Equally it could be a poor
Equally it could be a poor injector leaking onto a glow plug and cooling it, read the original post again and understand it.
It is £20-30 per injector, cheaper if you go to many local specialists.
the glow plugs are above the
the glow plugs are above the injectors on a fourtrak engine so unless the spray pattern is that bad that its just shooting it upwards to cool the glow plug its not that but then it does it after being on a motorway so its not the glow plugs thats making it rough when its HOT but it can be the glow plugs thats NOW making it hard to strat from cold.
if you think im not reading the post right and understanding it please do point out the bit im not reading or understanding
Reconditioned Injectors.
Stop all this ping pong and CHANGE THE INJECTORS for a set of reconditioned injectors. Shop around for the best deal. Shaking/black smoke with hot engine is a fuel problem - spray pattern or blocked nozzel.
problem is, shaking can also
problem is, shaking can also be caused by mounts gone on the gearbox/engine, bushes will be hotter and more plyable after a run, im still suggesting to check all obvious cheaper options first, fuel filter, plugs etc, im not against the injector idea but at the cost of £120 + vat, straight off and turns out its not the problem I would be rather miffed at that suggestion thats all.
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I checked the
I checked the turbo/intercooler hoses today and they have a lot of oil in them, i also checked the scroll of the turbo and i can move that a few mil until the blades touch the inside walls of the turbo... a guy at work suggested this as he had the same problem. so new turbo it is then :/ i cant explain the black smoke though i thought oil turned smoke blue? but when i start the car with the intercooler pipes removed there is no smoke.
yep thats your problem,with
yep thats your problem,with the inside of the turbo hitting the out side it is not spinning fast enough to move enough air and there for it is over fueling,you will always get oil in the intercooler/pipe work on a turbo car/4x4.
when the revs pick up your exhaust gasses are over coming the extra drag on the turbo from the rubbing and there for making it run right.
if the turbo oil seals had gone it would empty the sump befor you know it plus there is a good chance the engine would run on its own oil and over rev antill all the oil has gone or antill the engine its self has blown up.
atleast you checked all the free easy things first rather than going out and wasting money
good job you didnt dive in
good job you didnt dive in for 120 quids worth of injectors then as youll need that for turbo and new set of glow plugs for starting issue.
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The turbo on your model runs
The turbo on your model runs on a thick film of oil supplied by the engine, without the engine running the impellor will have movement considered excessive by many. Indeed many condemn perfectly serviceable turbo's for this reason.
Black smoke is unburned diesel and everything still points to the injectors having low break points and worn pintles leading to incomplete combustion. If you get a power boost as you claim, the turbo is working.
Clean the intercooler and its pipes out and monitor it.
Due to the heat of a turbo, oil mist is formed and this passes through the intercooler, then, over time condenses back to oil. This is normal. If you get blue smoke it is burning oil, so your assumption is correct.
at what rev is the turbo
at what rev is the turbo noticible at kicking in??
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i would say about 2500rpm,
i would say about 2500rpm, its also very reluctant to spool up until its warm
2500 is late, should be
2500 is late, should be 18-2000 it really starts, shows it needs alot of gasses to make it spin up
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yep his turbo is shot. don't
yep his turbo is shot.
don't argue with an idiot. He Will only drag you down to their level, and beat you by experience.
google search can make a dumb ass look intelligent
I checked the spindle on the
I checked the spindle on the original turbo and it has enough play on it so the edges of the fins touch the housing... I have just bought a second hand turbo for £130 and there is no play in the spindle at all, but i do suspect an injector fault also regarding the lumpy tickover and black smoke.. I will fit the new turbo, change the oul/filter and see how she runs, if its still running crap i will send the injectors off for a recon then fingers crossed i will be able to slep at night again
cheers fellas
did you check the fuel flow
did you check the fuel flow to the injectors? and change filter?
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Just fitted the new turbo and
Just fitted the new turbo and took her out for a good drive to make sure all was well, apart from a slight oil leak from the turbo oil feed return everything seems fine.
glad its sorted
glad its sorted
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glad you got it sorted and it
glad you got it sorted and it was a cheapish and easy fix.
now if someone would ask more back ground info on the problems then maybe they can give a better maybe even the right answer to there problem,well thats even if they know what they are on about
Hi guys, well i replaced the
Hi guys, well i replaced the turbo and 4 injectors and still have the same problems :/ looks like the problem is a blown head/head gasket betwen pot 2&3
will know for sure once i get it compression checked hopefully today.
well that goes back to one of
well that goes back to one of my early posts then about are you loosing water etc then, if you suspect h/gasket get a sniff test done...easiest way.
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I sold the fourtrak and the
I sold the fourtrak and the guy removed the head. The gasket was indeed blown between pot 2&3 and upon closer inspection the head also has 2 hairline cracks in it.....
why sell?
why sell?
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just had enough of the car
just had enough of the car giving me problems
i'd of probably just thrown
i'd of probably just thrown in another engine, but I love em too much to give up n sell, I like the things you can do with the vehicles work wise, they take punishment, best of all I like the get in n go everyday reliabilty they have.
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dont get me wrong i think
dont get me wrong i think they are great but i needed a reliable car and i had too many things go wrong... besides the tax nd test was due, ive now bought a pajero exeed and it seems sweet with no problems