Seats, Are they Legal?

Forum: 

Does anyone know if it is legal or not to have people in the 2 small seats in the boot when driving on the roads?

Thanks

Steve

If they have seatbelts, and

If they have seatbelts, and the car iis insured for the number of people in it, then yes.

Any veiws expresed in this thread by me are purely from my own experience, and (sometimes) falible memory. Hope my comments help, but please don't take them as gospel.

jump seats

Hi Nev.
Interesting comment, my Fourtrak is registered as a 7 seater,and are sold on that basis. I have assumed that my insurance company was aware of this, as they hold a data base on all cars/trucks,ect. The two jump seats in the rear of my truck do not have seat belts, never were designed to have seat belts. So the truck was manufactured ,sold but with illegal to use the factory fitted seats and passed all the requirement of whatever department in the Gov' deals with this matter. Seems a bit odd !!!!!!!!!. So what was the point a marketing the truck as a seven seater. So why fit them in the first place, so what happens to some poor sod that is using them and is in a accident and the seat occupant is hurt. Can I run with seven up or not, am I legal !!!!!!! And I have run seven up, more than once, parents and kids in the jump seats. Lets have some comments on this issue, there are many brands of 4x4s out their with jump seats and in my job I see them in use, especialy in the pony club circuit, riding people.

Edward (ews) '92 Fourtrak 2.8 TDX

Did they ever make any with

Did they ever make any with seat belts? I cant see that a seat belt would do any good in a head on due to them being side facing. There good fun to use on the tracks tho.

Steve

If they are not factory

If they are not factory fitted then you don't legaly need them. As has been said, side facing seats would not gain much from a 3 poit belt. Though a lap belt may be of some use. My original coment was working on the bases that there was a legal requirment to have the things fitted in the fist place. It has been a legel requirment for front and rear seats to have seatbelts fited for some years now. I just asumed that the same was true of a third row. I can only asum it does not aply to side facing seats, for the aformentioned reasions.
My coment on insurence stil stands though.

Any veiws expresed in this thread by me are purely from my own experience, and (sometimes) falible memory. Hope my comments help, but please don't take them as gospel.

REPLY

You will find the UK Law States that "Seats where fitted either front or rear" (occupants must wear seatbelts)My Independent has the rear fold down seats unless seatbelts are fitted (THEY ARE NOT FITTED AS STANDARD BY DAIHATSU) don,t use them on the UK Road Network unless you want a fine of £30.00 times two by the boys in blue.You will also find that if you are involved in a crash & someone is injured using the said seats your insurance company will opt out of payment quoting current UK MOT Laws We have the same ball ache each year getting our Fourtrak tested MOT TESTER "Oh mate you don,t have seatbelts fitted for these rear seats"If your gonna use them on the road fit seatbelts lapbelts will do STRM

seats

i have taken the back seats out of my indi thay are prity usless and take up loads of room i can get three times the amount of stuff in the boot now and yes i got £30.00 quid fine for haveing my son in there with no belt on

WE AL MAKE MISTAKES SAID THE DARLEK GETTING OFF THE DUSTBIN

I e-mailed Essex police

I e-mailed Essex police saying:

I own a Daihatsu Fourtrak. It is a 4x4 with 7 seats. (2 in front, 3 in rear and 2 side facing fold down seats in boot
The 2 side facing fold down seats in the boot do not have seat belts, they were never made with seatbelts. If I wanted to carry people on these seats is it legal to do so if all the other seats with seatbelts are taken up??

Thanks in advance.

Steven

They replied:

Classification: NOT PROTECTIVELY MARKED

Steven,
Under the construction and use regulation 1986 and the wearing of seat belt regulations 2005 the requirement to fit seat belts only relates to Forward or rearward facing seats, so those in the rear of your vehicle are exempt. We would always encourage drivers to use those seats fitted with seatbelts to be used first but there is no legal requirement for this.

Pc Martin ROSE
Traffic Law Instructor
Essex Police College

seats are they legal

I have just emailed Avon & Somerset Police with the same question as 'fourtrak_steve'. I will post their reply when it arrives.

Maybe some one in each county could email their constabulary, and we could see what diverse replys we get, maybe they all would agree !!!!!!!!!!!.

I have never had a problem with MOT tester's over the 'jump' seats in the rear load area,using four MOT Testing stations in the time that I have owned my 4Trak, over six years.

Edward.

Edward (ews) '92 Fourtrak 2.8 TDX

Seats. Are they legal ?

I have just had this reply from Avon & Somerset Police.

*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+

[email protected]

The paragraph below is copied from the THINK ! website on the new seatbelt law for children, but this paragraph about sideways facing seats applies to all vehicles, and is valid for adults and children. You may legally carry adults, and children over 12 or 135cms in height, in your sideways facing seats without seat belts. I would ask you to consider what may happen to those unrestrained persons in the event of a frontal impact, and the injuries that may be caused to the passengers in the other seats by those unrestrained passengers. If you have any queries please ring me on 01275 816854.

regards

Dave Sheppard
Road Policing Unit HQ

" . My vehicle has sideways-facing seats
There has never been a legal requirement to fit seat belts in sideways-facing seats. the human body bends forward from the waist- it does not bend sideways and the potential for internal and spinal injury is high, therefore if a passenger is secured with a seat belt in a sideways-facing seat. For similar reasons, the type-aproval standard for child seats and boosters does not include fixing them in a sideways-facing seat.

A child who is required to use child seats/boosters (i.e. all those who are under 135cms in height who are also under 12 years of age) cannot travel in a sideways-facing seat. A child who needs to use a child seat or boosters must use a forward or rearward facing seat only.

*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*
A direct copy of the email that I received today.

Jakobite , you may have a case to get a refund !!!!!!!

Edward. (ews)

Edward (ews) '92 Fourtrak 2.8 TDX

seats

Thanks Edward
I was going to find out about this. it was a long time ago now, about 8mths after seat belt law came out. but realy thinking about it, i should not have had my boy in there, (what a pratt i could have lost my boy for good or worse had to watch him grow up with no frigin face ) i still think this is not the piont the question is would you let your kids ride in these stupid seats my bro and sister are both paramedics and have shown me many pictures of people and kids with there face missing i should post some realy no disrespect to any one i dont think you understand what realy happens when some pratt rear ends you at 50mph or you rear end a hgv
all the best jako

WE AL MAKE MISTAKES SAID THE DARLEK GETTING OFF THE DUSTBIN

WE AL MAKE MISTAKES SAID THE DARLEK GETTING OFF THE DUSTBIN

I also got this from the

I also got this from the Department of transport.

Thanks for this. Full information on the updated seat belt/child seat rules is on-line at http://www.thinkroadsafety.gov.uk/campaigns/childcarseats/childcarseats.htm .

Question 8D is very relevant. You would need to consider very carefully whether to fit seat belts in the rear sideways facing seats.

Seat belt wearing law will not prevent adults (ie those over 135 cms in height) travelling in the rear sideways-facing seats if seat belts are not fitted. But if they are fitted, then adults have to use them - children under 135 cms in height cannot use them because their child seats/boosters cannot be used in sideways facing seats.

However, note that police can and do use other legislation to deal with cases where the manner in which passengers are carried is such that the use of the vehicle involves a danger of injury to any person. That means it's a judgement call on an officer whether something is dangerous - the penalty includes 3 penalty points for the driver.

Bear in mind that in a crash, at 30 mph, an unbelted adult passenger will hit whatever is in the way with a force between 30 and 60 times body weight.

So pretty much its all to do with whether the police officer can be bothered to go through all the paper work involved with getting you done. But saying all that they are only doing it for our own safety.

I asked if i was to fit my own seat belts is there any safety standards i need to do it to..... he said he would pass it on to their technical department.... So a length of rope wraped round the seat and tied on your lap it is then.

seat belts / 6th and 7th seats

Hello. I've had a read through this thread, as I noticed the 6th and 7th seats in the Fourtrak I'm about to buy have no seat belts. My dad has an M-reg Land Rover Discovery 2.5TDi ES, which has 2 rear sideways facing seats, factory fitted with seat belts.

I work for First Bus and recently had a bit to do with seatbelt installations in some of our vehicles. Looking at the seats in the Fourtrak, I really don't think they'd be sturdy enough for a proper seatbelt instal. Yes, they could be fitted, but the seats would probably have to be secured to the vehicle in a somewhat more sturdy manner (not that I looked that closely, but they didn't seem all that sturdy to me!) and the seat frames may have to be strengthened.

I think it's really as folk have said already. They're not fitted, so by rights they're not needed. However, should there be an accident, you're always going to have this issue about letting people travel in seats without seat belts. And as previously mentioned, it'd depend a lot on any officer who stops you as to how far they'd take it. C&U and MoT regs may allow these seats to be used, but they probably will be able to get you under some other regulations!

My overall opinion? They're a waste of space, really! I think mine will just be coming out.

To put another thought into it though. My dad previously had a D-reg Fourtrak 2.0 petrol SWB. He removed the rear bench seat in that, and had sideways fitting fold up benches fitted to the car. These didn't have seat belts either, yet he never had any problems off the police, or MoT man, with them in the 9 years he had the car! Even when someone ran up the back of it, and I was actually sat in the back at the time, the police made no comments. So worth thinking about (I do understand that the rules have changed slightly in recent years, most notably with the introduction of this booster seat law)

-T

1999 Ford Focus 1.8TDDi Zetec/1993 Daihatsu Fourtrak 2.8TDX (coming soon)

1999 Ford Focus 1.8TDDi Zetec/1993 Daihatsu Fourtrak 2.8TDX (coming soon)

soft top bench seats.

All, seat belt law in this country is very simple, if they are there they need to be warn. If they were not factory fitted then there was no legal requirement to do so and it's still leagal to drive without them. e.g Cars built before the first seats belts were required to be fitted (1967) still do not need them and are legal to drive without them.

Now then - having said all that, i have a 1984 F80 (soft top) with rear bench seats - has anyone ever seen belts fitted (after market) to these, and if so, how and where ?? I'm talking lap straps only.

thanks

Doug

REPLY

Just tested my Independent Fourtrak on the 10/10/07.The MoT Tester said "For the third time" (3 TESTS AT THE SAME PLACE) no seat belts fitted on the stupid boot seats don,t use them on the road otherwise you will be fined by the Police Word of warning if in doubt don,t use them without seatbelts lap belts will do the job & also please The Boys In Blue regards STRM

soft top bench seats/belts

have a look under the back of the seat for seatbelt mountings, it will be threaded holes let into the floor. if there arnt any it is possible to fit lap belts by drilling the floor to take the seat belt mounting bolts, but fit spreader plates beneath the floor to stop the bolts pulling through in an accident. a piece of 6mm thick plate about 100mm square should be adequate, but the bigger the better. ive mounted seats and belts in the rear of transit sized vans in this way with no probs at mot time. it may cause probs with an insurance claim though... its best to inform the insurance company and give them a letter from your local mot garage stating that they meet the mot requirements for seatbelt anchorages, does help to have used the same local garage for 20 years ...

our 89 fourtrack has lap belts fitted to the sideaways seats in the boot, as does our discovery, but we only ever use the seats when the other five are full.

REPLY

"Print this garbage off" so you can take it to court as proof To the Magistrate when you get pulled up for using the seats without seatbelts to offset your £60 fine STRM

MoT requirements

When I bought my 4trak 2 years ago there was only one seat belt fitted for the rear bench seat, as well as the 2 front ones. I checked the MoT requirements on the government web site and it stated that only one belt was legally required in one of the outside positions for this seat. Coupled with the requirement that "seat belts must be used if fitted" this would mean that someone could sit on one of the seats without a belt legally. Or is there another law somewhere that states otherwise??????

seat belts

so if this is correct can i get my fine back ???

WE AL MAKE MISTAKES SAID THE DARLEK GETTING OFF THE DUSTBIN

WE AL MAKE MISTAKES SAID THE DARLEK GETTING OFF THE DUSTBIN

seat .... but not the car brand

I had got the fold down bench seats in my f70 when i brought it yonks ago and the details class it as an eight seater vehicle????? the japanese must be tiny!!,but only got one now as need room for tools etc, but having people in there i believe is perfectly legit because of when it came out - not sure but not bothered absolutely fed up with health and safety and nanny cotton wool state anyway!! Smile

Full of ideas but no time to do them!!

www.bloodredoffroad.com
www.milneroffroad.com
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HEAR HEAR!!!

Couldn't agree more with your comment, I too get sick and tired of silly rules that Politicians rapidly introduce to restrict our freedom. Pity they don't spend more time and effort in sorting the real problems of the Country and give the Motorist a well deserved rest!!!!.

OLDMINIMAN