Forum:
I have been looking for a 4x4 for a approx 6 months now starting off thinking about a Frontera then a Jimny now Ive seen a Fourtrak I like and hopefully will have enough money next week to do something about it.
I am a senior member on a motorcycle site, another hobby of mine, so I know what its like when someone new comes on and asks the old old questions. I have been through as many back post as I can and the "how it works" section, but I still have a few questions.
My main motivation in buying a 4x4 is I am due to start a contracting job and unlike the last two years I cannot afford to get stuck at home for 1 month in the winter like I have the last two winters, but I would also like to have a few off road days just to see what she will do, but nothing too radical.
I like what I read about the basic design of the Fourtrak and its unbreakable reliability, seen some advertised with 500k miles.
I do not intend doing any modifications to her, just a good set of tyres....which leads me to my first question, that Im sure has been asked many times before. But with my driving in winter motivation and a bit of off road mud would a general AT tyre (money not too much of a problem here as I believe in good tyres for any car or bike I drive) give good grip in the snow and ice or are there all weather tyres that would be better. Also is it possible to get a set of steel wheels to have a spare set with more excessive off road tyres on. What size tyres does it take (1996 TDX indi) as I have seen differing sizes mentioned from 235 to 215.
The one I am looking at has manual hubs, and I now understand "wind up" from the articles on here, and in the "how it works" it says you need to be stationary (providing hubs are already engaged) to go to 4 wheel drive (it has 4wd button on dash and lever for 2H/4L). Is this really the case to be stationary or could you be moving slowly. Just thinking again in the winter if conditions are bad engaging manual hubs before setting off, and then if a hill or other condition dictated switch into 4wd.
The vehicle Im going to look at is a 1996 with 100k miles, had a quick look while passing the garage the other day, and for its age looks in good nick, not had a test drive yet, but did hear the engine running. It sounded very knocky (started from cold though) compared with my old BMW 320 diesel car, is this normal? I do understand Im not buying a luxury vehicle here and Im quite happy to put up with what I read about the on road ride quality and noise.
Anything else I should look at during the test drive?
Sorry to go on for so long.....Thanks, Dave
To begin: You have to be
To begin:
You have to be stationary as this is a basic 4WD system, the most basic you can get, and the same reason for its reliability. Basically the rear prop has a sliding sleeve which slides over the front prop to engage it.
Moving sleeve and stationary prop, self explanetary, it will just mash the splines.
Tyres are rated thus, 90/10 - 80/20 - 70/30 etc.
The first number is the on road time and the second number is the off road time expressed as percentages. For snow and ice the best tyre is actually a road tyre, if you wish to do a little off roading you need a road biased tyre with a little off road capability.
I would suggest "Cooper tyres", premium brand without the premium brand price tag, used them for years and really rate them on and off road. Recommended them to many people who also rave about them, long life, my last ones did over 90,000 miles.
I would recommend the Cooper Discoverer HT, this is an 80/20 tyre which means it is road biased with some off road capability. If you look on the "Tyrespec" website it lists Discoverer HT in 235/75/15 at £69.53 each, this includes delivery to your home.
If you have basic steel wheels it comes with 215/15 tyres, but 235/75/15 will fit them and are a popular upgrade. If you have original alloy wheels fitted they could be either 235/75/15 or 265/70/15 tyres, so really you can fit either.
AT tyres vary considerably, as already stated they can be road biased 90/10 tyres to 20/80 which are seriously off road biased. You have to be very aware of this point as the more off road biased you become, the more on road ability will suffer. Remember they are a compromise, you gain somewhere, you lose somewhere else, and the reason i advocate the Discoverer HT. This gives a predominantly road biased tyre with little to unnoticeable compromise, and a little off road ability. Remember these vehicles are already excellent off road to begin with.
On a road test:
Remember these engines are decades old, they are a basic engine, and this makes them very reliable and long lived. They do clatter on start up just as old diesel engines did.
Obviously check the engine, check the oil, cooling system water to ensure it is clean and rust free with anti-freeze added. Then the usual engine checks, smoke of any kind, power delivery. Check to feel the turbo kicks in at around 15-1700 RPM, and there are no leaks of any kind.
Check the gearbox, ensure it changes down from third to second as this can be a problem. There is a gearbox nut which comes loose, a simple fix, or the synchro's and baulk rings can wear.
Check the four wheel drive system, get the vehicle off road, a grass verge or field will do.
Engage four wheel drive, is it engaging, if so engage low range, is this also engaging and working correctly. Remember you have to stop to engage 4WD and again for low range.
Check for underbody corrosion, remember many of these vehicles were worked hard, many by farmers instead of Land Rovers. This means many have a hard life, so check very carefully.
Main areas of corrosion are the rear floor above the fuel tank, around the seat belt mountings, sills, and rear wheel arches. These are the predominant dirt traps, if the underside is/was cleaned regularly, or the vehicle was not used heavily off road this risk lessens.
You do not need to engage the hubs as they are automatic hubs, unless they have been changed for manual hubs. Often when you disengage 4WD you need to reverse a couple of metres/yards for them to disengage, particularly in the cold weather as the grease thickens. This is covered in the How It Works section. Many people criticise the auto hub, but fail to maintain them, them moan when they fail.
Assassin Thanks for a great
Assassin
Thanks for a great reply on the tyres and switching to 4wd. I am pretty sure it is manual hubs as they have have the writing on them (cant remember the words, is it just off/on or lock/unlock)and the flat bit for turning them.
I like the basicness of these vehicles and the reported reliability. Many many years ago I used to drive old basic military Land Rovers off road, but a couple of years ago my Sister bought me a few hours on an off road course. It was very tame off road in a new Jeep. Everything was push a button for going up hill, push a button for going downhill. Im sure a very capable machine but I just felt any ability had been taken away from the driver.
Think I will go with your idea for the 80/20, it does have alloys, but was also thinking then of a set of steel wheels (maybe slightly narrower) with more off road biased tyres on.
Over the last few years I have looked at getting winter or all weather tyres for the car in the winter as I read that they are a different compound and tread pattern for better grip below 7degrees (summer temp here in Scotland) Is an 80/20 AT (like the idea of the Coopers you mention) tyre going to also give good grip in the snow or is there all weather/winter tyres that would be better. Im not too bothered about on road comfort, as I have a car for work and general use.
Top notch reply!
many thanks for that very informative reply assassin.
Cheers, Terry
Winter tyres are a softer
Winter tyres are a softer compound, it is this which makes them better for snow and ice. In reality, why bother as the Coopers are designed for this anyway.
In reality the winter tyres are often a waste of time as we do not have the conditions to justify them, also remember modern tyres need replacing every 5 years. This is not due to wear, but tyre degredation, basically they delaminate and become dangerous, and you cannot see it.
Winter tyres suffer another trait, they overheat if used for miles in warmer conditions, so are potentially dangerous if incorrectly used.
Buying steel rims for more aggressive off road tyres, thats what most people do, but make sure they are Daihatsu Fourtrak rims. Alternatively use new aftermarket rims.
Many people use rims from other vehicles, do not do this, Suzuki rims fit but are simply not strong enough for the vehicle. This is due to the Suzy being much lighter, and imposing lower loadings on the rims.