Forum:
I have been offered a 2.8 normally aspirated diesel engine from a C reg Fourtrak plus other bits needed from the vehicle by the owner of a local garage who has had it in his yard for 4 years and just used it to move his boat around. I intend to fit this engine into my F20 to replace the aged and tappetty (is that a word?) 1.6 petrol. I know this topic has been covered in detail in the past and I have searched the forums and picked up most of what I need to know but still have a few questions....
1. Do I need the diesel bell housing to mate the diesel engine with my F20 5 speed gear box?
2. Do I need to change the input shaft on the gear box as well?
3. Apart from fuel filter, air box and hoses, glow plug relay, and engine ancillaries, what else do I need?
4. I am happy to fab up new engine mounts, exhaust system and fuel return pipes and to move the rad if necessary. Is anything else likely to need cutting?
5. I realise that the F20 diffs are lower ratio than the diesel's, but may eventually run some 235/85-16 tyres on a set of Grand Vitara rims I've got. Does anyone know the ratio of the diesel diffs so I can work out the difference in rpm at a given speed etc?
6. How is the rev counter driven on the diesel? I know it won't hook up on the coil like the petrol one.
7. What other electrical gremlins are going to pop up? Fuel pump? Glow plugs and relay? Alternator and voltage regulator?
I'm hoping Nev.K and Bundyrumandcoke will chip in with this one as they have had alot of input on similar threads previously.
By the way, I haven't seen the engine yet, as the owner is on holiday for a fortnight, so I don't know exactly which one it is - it might still be a knackered old smoker !!! The gear box is suffering the mainshaft nut problem we all know so well so that's probably had it.
Many thanks in advance to anyone with ideas or experience of this swap who wants to contribute.
Alastair.
1st of all. Unless the
1st of all. Unless the Petrol is really knaked, don't do it. The Normally asperated 2.8 is guttless. Also on F20 diff ratios a Diesel is going to be slow, and pritty un-economical (as it'll be reving like made all the time).
That said, if you find a terbo 2.8, and put either bigger tyres or F50 axles on it you'll have one hell of a tool (an F60 to be precise).
Anyway:
1. Yes you do need the bell housing.
2. No. Only the F80/85 2ltr 4trak has a diffrant input shaft.
3. The Diesel rad would be usful. Not sure, but I think the bottom hose is on the opposite side?
4. Not that I can think of...
5. Can't remember the figres, but it's the same as a Rang Rover, if that helps.
6. Sorry, can't help there.
7. You will need the glow plug relay, otherwise you'll burn out the plugs.
Hope that is of some help at least?
Any veiws expresed in this thread by me are purely from my own experience, and (sometimes) falible memory. Hope my comments help, but please don't take them as gospel.
Yes, it is
Yes, it is - it pretty much confirms what I had read already, including the bit about the 2.8 NA being gutless. The diff ratio on the Range Rover is 3.54:1 so thats a pretty big difference - I might have to go with the big tyres as well if it's impossible to drive sensibly on the road.
Any idea if it's possible to swap the ring and pinion from the later diesel axles into the F20 axles? Just another thought ...
Thanks for the input - Alastair.
Petrol diff ratio
The diff ratio in the petrol F20 is 4.78 so to go up to 3.54 would be much better. Using the petrol axles would mean the gears would be 26% lower than intended for the diesel engine. Not a problem if used off road only but I need to drive it to where I use it, preferably at more than 40 mph max!
The axle casings are the
The axle casings are the same inside as far as I'm aware. I know they are on the outside, as I have changed whole axles between them befor.
Any veiws expresed in this thread by me are purely from my own experience, and (sometimes) falible memory. Hope my comments help, but please don't take them as gospel.
I have recently aquired an
I have recently aquired an F20 which has had the 2.5 diesel transplanted into it but hasn't quite been finished off. Unfortunately I don't know the exact details of the conversion but one of the issues that remains is that the cooling fan (engine driven) is too close to the radiator and if was driven round much they would probably have a coming together. I was planning to get round this by either moving the radiator forward slightly or changing to an electric fan in front of the radiator. I guess you will probably have a similar problem.
For info on diff ratios look at this page,
http://www.gonzo4x4.be/daihatsu.htm
I intend to keep the petrol axles on mine and fit bigger tyres to keep sensible gearing, just trying to decide how big.
Also the guy who runs the page with the diff info has put a 2.8 turbo into his, there is some info on his pages there but he also posts on here sometimes as gonzo4x4 but usually on daihatsu4x4.eu forum where there are quite a few F20/F50 owners,
http://www.daihatsu4x4.eu/viewtopic.php?t=778
For the rev counter I don't think that the F50 with the 2.5 had one, I think it was only on the petrol models (at least that is what the handbook seems to suggest) so this may be the same for the 2.8.
Steve
F20/80
Conversions i have undertaken (numerous) have led me to the following conclusions:
Use the engine-gearbox-transfer case as one unit from the 2.8, use the matching axles, and speedo, basically this is a 2.8 fourtrak in an f20 body.
Use all the ancilliary components such as the radiator, electrical system, and fuel system; move the radiator forwards as much as possible into the front panel, replace the radiator fan with twin electrical units. Twin electrical units are much slimmer, and these will need wiring through a 2 stage fan switch, i use a Peugeot diesel switch as it is two stage as standard.
Be prepared for many problems, and ensure you are; or have access to an experienced fabricator.
The problem with that is,
The problem with that is, the F70 axles are quite a bit wider than the F50/20, and the spring positionings are all wrong. If your going to stick to the F20/50 axles, then you realy need to use the matching transfur. Otherwise you have no handbreak, as the F70s is on the rear wheels whilst the F20/50 keeps it on the back of the transfur case. Also the flanges (transfur end, and diff) are slightly diffrent sizes from the F50 to the F70, so with a mix and match you would have to build and ballance new props.
That said the F70 bell housing will bolt straight up to the F20 gearbox, as it is basicly the same box anyway. The one thing you may want to change is to put some F50 engine mounts on the 2.8. This is becouse the engine sits at a difrant hight compared to the chassis in an F50, compared to and F70/75. Not a problem as the mounts bolt to the block and are interchangable. Of course you fabricating engine mounts for the chassis in this conversion anyway, so that shouldn't be a problem.
I would try to get the matching rad for the engine.
Any veiws expresed in this thread by me are purely from my own experience, and (sometimes) falible memory. Hope my comments help, but please don't take them as gospel.
Great links
Thanks for the info - great picture of the red Belgian vehicle. I was thinking of 235/85/16 tyres on grand vitara rims (8x16). The Insa turbo special track in this size are ~81 cm tall which would give a useful lift of about 2 inches under the diffs. I would rather go to 33x10.5 but I think 35x10.5 would kill the turning circle too much even with 30mm spacers behind the wheels. I'll get the engine in first and sort out further problems as I get to them.
Keep the info flowing if there is any more, I hadn't seen either of those sites before, and post up details of which ever tyres you go for along with the fan solution when you get there.
Regards to all - Alastair.
Wheels
Alastair,
Have you seen the 8x16 wheels that the suzuki specialist Rhino Ray does? If you are looking for larger offsets to try and keep your turning circle they may be worth considering. I think he can do them with pretty much any offset upto about 5". In terms of tyres I am probably going to go for either a 33" or 35", still to decide depending on what lift etc I go for, and for tread patterns I am liking the look of the Maxxis 8080 (Mudzilla) as they are available in some quite wide sizes like the ones on this thread,
http://forum.difflock.com/viewtopic.php?t=14981
They aren't quite as agressive as the special tracks or other Simex copies but I think would work well.
On the daihatsu4x4.eu forum an almost identical question has just been asked about the installation of a 2.8td into a F50.
http://www.daihatsu4x4.eu/viewtopic.php?t=839
It will probably be a month or two before I can post any more details of mine as it is currently parked up at my Dad's place about 200 miles away waiting for me to sort out space to keep it and a tow vehicle to go and get it. I'm in a research and planning stage at the moment.
regards,
Steve
F20 saga
Hi Steve
Ah the research and planning stage - almost as much fun as the building and driving stage !! Rhino Ray's wheels are too expensive at £70 a go so I'll have to stick to what I've got. I like the idea of 33" tyres best. I read the other forum posts and may look out for a turbo diesel instead. There are few pictures of my buggy in the modified gallery if you're interested.
Will let you know how I get on.
Regards - Alastair.
F20 Buggy
I like that, looks like a lot of time has gone into all that tube and body work.
Regards,
Steve
Wheels
Alastair,
Have you seen the 8x16 wheels that the suzuki specialist Rhino Ray does? If you are looking for larger offsets to try and keep your turning circle they may be worth considering. I think he can do them with pretty much any offset upto about 5". In terms of tyres I am probably going to go for either a 33" or 35", still to decide depending on what lift etc I go for, and for tread patterns I am liking the look of the Maxxis 8080 (Mudzilla) as they are available in some quite wide sizes.
They aren't quite as agressive as the special tracks or other Simex copies but I think would work well.
On the daihatsu4x4.eu forum an almost identical question has just been asked about the installation of a 2.8td into a F50.
It will probably be a month or two before I can post any more details of mine as it is currently parked up at my Dad's place about 200 miles away waiting for me to sort out space to keep it and a tow vehicle to go and get it. I'm in a research and planning stage at the moment.
regards,
Steve