Daihatsu V Land Rover

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Which is the best, Daihatsu or Land Rover? well, an old friend decided to put this to the test, he has a one year old Discovery as a company vehicle, and a 94 Fourtrak as his old hack. Both vehicles were purchased from new, the company Disco travels mainly on roads with occasional site visits, the worst off roading being where cars travel onto site, from new it has spent a total of 9 weeks off the road with breakdowns in its first year. Total cost to the company is £4838 in repair and maintenance costs as they purchased, rather than lease their vehicles, this is despite the vehicle still being under warranty. Land Rover seem to have so many conditions within their guarantees that they seem to be worth less than the paper on which they are written.
Despite being 14 years old, and covered 208,000 miles, the Daihatsu has only broken down once, i say break down, his wife ran out of fuel, in the last year the Daihatsu has cost a grand total of £78.

Modern reliability, electronics, build quality; or good old fashioned simple as sin, you decide.

D v. LR

Well for me I have a foot in both camps so to speak, being that at the tender age of 17 my first vehicle was a 1966 LWB Safari LR. At 43 I've had my Fourtrak for less than 6 months but would buy another one tomorrow if I could.
The LR was a ton & a half of pure sex! (in the mind of a 17 year old terrorising the highways & byways of North Essex)but I have to say that despite a vaguely patriotic streak I never knew I had, the Trak comes a very, very close 2nd, possibly even nudging ahead in the dying moments.

'93 Fourtrak 2.8TDL

D v LR

I bought my first fourtrak (2.0 petrol) in 1990 and in the nine years I had it, all I had was a new clutch and exhaust plus the usual servicing and it never let me down once, I then bought a discovery (don't ask me why) and in the five years I had it I must of spent in the region of £3000 on it and had to call the AA out loads of times. I now have a 96 TDX indy and now realise I should never ever had bought anything other than a fourtrak. A very expensive lesson learnt !!!

Having started my driving

Having started my driving carrear with a 1963 Series IIA ex-RAF SWB (Not light-wait, YUK), which at the time as a die hard avid Land Rover fan I thought was the dogs danglies, I have to say I have learnt my lesson. I spent more time fixing it than driving it. It was crap off road, and on it as it goes. And it's true, if you by a Landi, the next thing you bye is a welder.
I have been around 4x4's of verious ilks for most of my adult life, and am of the firm oppinion that Jap Crap will trump anything els. Always. Of cours all cars have their own peculiar failings, but I think Daihatsu's have the least.
I have all the parts now for a high-bread I've been planing for a number of years, and might even start building if family / house / cars that I need to get to work will allow. Having played with so many diffrent 4X4's I decided to build my own using the best bits of those around. Basicly a F70 cut down to 80". All the running gear from that car, and the gearbox. Then one of only 2 things from a Landi that they got right, the Ali bodywork (Series I). Then make my own bulkhead with rollcage base built in, as the Daihatsu bulkhead wont fit, and Landi ones are pants. The only dilema is do I go with the very reliable, easy to fit (couse it's suposed to be there) 2.8 terbo Trak lump under the bonnet. Or take a risk of making fit the reliability questionabl, but more fun Rover 3.5 V8 I have in the shed?

Any veiws expresed in this thread by me are purely from my own experience, and (sometimes) falible memory. Hope my comments help, but please don't take them as gospel. After all my idea of a fun weekend consists of bouncing from tree to tree in a collec

Any veiws expresed in this thread by me are purely from my own experience, and (sometimes) falible memory. Hope my comments help, but please don't take them as gospel.

theres a few swings and

theres a few swings and roundabouts, diffs on the landies being to one side and higher, ally body panels, better gound clearance as standard, however driving more than 10 miles in a mk1-2-3 landie and your hearing is affected, and your backsides numb, arms like garth because of the steering, disco`s mmm dunno i think bar the engine unit they may compare with the track, however from rear door frame cracks i saw on a few of the mates and the way they used to get stuck in std form i held off buying one, freelander, yep it does do the job but end the day its more a car

fourtrack serious grunt from the 2.8, my doctor goes off road in a defender 90 and he told me that the tracks walk all over him, diffs central, pain because they drag or get banged on the central ruts, could do with being 1 inch higher in clearance, headlamps as standard crap, very few off the shelf mod parts,

if the track was still being made i would seriously consinder going for one, however with the latest do gooder regs i have no doubts it would be a shadow of its former self and modded some the `poser` brigade would be wanting one

big one however is second hand prices
i paid 1k for a 96 2,8 tdi fieldman,12 month test, its cost me £100 to replace a few bits, some cosmetic

now go and locate a landie same year same price see the difference

SWINGS AND ROUNDABOUTS

I agree 100% and yes the series Landies took some driving any distance and some fuel. The early Disco's were renowned for rot to the rear floor areas which was surprising from a company who had made so many vehicles from Alloy.

If we were to see the re-launch of the Track I'm sure it would be a compromise and I think may ruin their well earnt reputation, shame really that desigener demands and the madness surrounding "Greenhouse and Global warming" rubbish should see the demise of some excellent 4x4's. I for one feel the hype over CO2 is nothing more than an excuse to raise taxes, I was always taught in the 50's that sun spots would create climate change and the current attempt for man to alter nature is typical arrogance of so called world leaders and mankind. In the UK, 4x4 drivers and most motorists are blamed and charged for everthing. High fuel due to tax, high road tax, higher congestion charges, either higher parking fees or no parking. It is about time they stood up and said NO MORE, enogh is enough!! I afraid there is little chance of that though with the apathy that rules or seems to rule.

If I had to replace my Daihatsu's I would, as said before, go for only one, the Defender as the only contender (bit of poetry there), what a shame!!!

OLDMINIMAN

M J Young

D v LR

As a Land Rover series owner with Daihatsu engine I can see pros and cons either way. My Landie is tax free and runs on veggie oil and yes it seriously damages hearing, spine and gives you arms like Popeye! Take the rag top off and drive in summer and it can't be beat. It has the classic Landrover look which is beautiful. It is crude in the extreme but parts are cheap as chips. It is just great and I love it to bits, but I can see the advantages of the Fourtrak - just don't want one at present. It would be interesting to post this on a Land Rover forum and see the sparks fly!!

Go on. And post a link. I

Go on. And post a link. I think it would make for intresting reading.

Any veiws expresed in this thread by me are purely from my own experience, and (sometimes) falible memory. Hope my comments help, but please don't take them as gospel.

Any veiws expresed in this thread by me are purely from my own experience, and (sometimes) falible memory. Hope my comments help, but please don't take them as gospel.

wrote: Go on. And post a

wrote:Go on. And post a link. I think it would make for intresting reading.

ooooo i see crank and jack handles at dawn Biggrin

I had a fourtrak it was

I had a fourtrak it was noisey low geared and uncomfortable in the back seat. It was to light and short to tow 3.5 tonne safely. Have had discoverys since and very happy with them. I dont feel a foutrak is a better everyday vehicle but thats just my opinion

D v LR

i have owned s3 landy`s for the last 10 years, starting with a swb hardtop diesel, not to bad but lack of grunt in pulling a trailer, so i purchased a lwb ex m.o.d petrol one ok for pulling a traler but get over 30 mph, conversation with a passenger was a no no. the rain came in,and i could not stop it from misting up, the plus side of it was my arm muscles developed so much i could have pulled along a jumbo jet solo,

having got fed up with this i have just bought a rocky fourtrak 2.8 tdx, driving it 15 miles home,it was misty and raining, but i got home dry and and when i got home felt like doing somethihg instead of falling asleep in the chair, early days yet though as i have not driven it much yet,one thing i have noticed though is leaving it out in the rain the other day, i noticed the carpet on the pax side is wet is this a common thing and where apart from the door seal,is there a known place for it to leak regards STEVE

STEVE

I'm afraid that having read

I'm afraid that having read a lot of the science stuff on CO2 emitions I can't agree with some of your statments. However I don't think the current way of decreasing those emitions is neccesarily right either.
For example. Why is SVO not avalible at the pump on all petrol forcourts? It's the same a Dino Derv to your car. And it's 1st generation CO2 emitions make no diffrence to green house levels, as the CO2 was only removed from the atmosfire last year instead of 6million ago.
Also catalitic converters. At least one car company had produced a lean burn engine befor the cat law came in which produced less harmfull emitions than the best the same co. could do with a cat in the system. Cat's require more fule to make them work, than the same engine without one.
Why don't all new buildings have solar powered hot water? It costs about £2000. Not much on the price of a new house. And will pay it self back in time.Why are we building a new coal fired power station, when atomic energy (even with it's own problems) is actually proven to be cleaner. For that matter why not build an SVO berning power plant? With it's own farm to produce fule? With wind terbines planted amongest the crop? A little fanciful? Prehaps.
But my original point (of which I seem to have left behind somewhere in this meandering rant) is this. It is possible to make a good car, that is reliable, and is good at what it's meant to do, and that is 'GOOD' to the environment. At least good enough to make it past our buricratic friends in Brussels.

Any veiws expresed in this thread by me are purely from my own experience, and (sometimes) falible memory. Hope my comments help, but please don't take them as gospel.

Any veiws expresed in this thread by me are purely from my own experience, and (sometimes) falible memory. Hope my comments help, but please don't take them as gospel.

DAIHATSU V LANDROVERS

It is my opinion that the only decent Landrovers are those based upon the original Series Landrovers and that these regardless of age from the 40's to the current date put all dirivitives made by the Land rover Group to shame. Yes they are true 4x4's and have been around for years. Yer Disco and Range Rover and of course the Freelander are just modern SPV's and in the main are used for school runs and the like.

Comparing the traditional LandRover with a Daihatsu is chalk and cheese but comparing the Disco and Range Rover is different and I would say penny for penny the Daihatsu wins hands down . They are, or were, cheaper in the first place, are good off and on road, robust and reliable. Maintenance in the main is simple, much like the original Land Rovers.

Comparing the Daihatsu to a Defender is not comparing like for like but the Daihatsu's give them a better run for their money than a good number of so called 4x4's produced now. In comparison to the Vitara's and such, eg 4x4's of the same era, then the Daihatsu is streets ahead and was in all tests carried out by 4x4 magazines, the Fourtrak held the title of best off roader for a good number of years in the 90's.

Sadly the only decent 4x4 produced this decade is still the Defender type Landrover, the rest are just badges and for show and status but I know that the Daihatsu's that survive will continue to give most of them a good licking off road and on running costs.

OLDMINIMAN

M J Young

You've really only got to

You've really only got to ask your local farmer about the Defender / Fourtrak issue. Most were gutted when the Trak went off the market, as the only aulternative is the Defender. Good job the people in charge of Land Rover these days didn't do anything stupid, like throw away a good reliable TDi and replace it with something that spends it's entire (short) life trying to find the most intresting (see expensive) way to die. Oh, hange on a minet, that just what they did do...

Any veiws expresed in this thread by me are purely from my own experience, and (sometimes) falible memory. Hope my comments help, but please don't take them as gospel. After all my idea of a fun weekend consists of bouncing from tree to tree in a collec

Any veiws expresed in this thread by me are purely from my own experience, and (sometimes) falible memory. Hope my comments help, but please don't take them as gospel.

As Above

Reading the posts, i can see a common thread, what people should realise is that when Land Rover introduced their product they were the only company doing so on such a scale. Jeep produced a large number of vehicles, but these were competing in an entirely different market; Land Rover had dominance in most of the world markets, most of these were the British Empire, and former colonies. Familiarity with the Land Rover product is what kept the sales figures high for so long, with this typical arrogance of the then British industry, they turned out shoddy products and did not bother developing new or improved products with the profits. Most of these profits went into dodgy deals with suppliers, and as bonuses to what we would term FAT CATS today.
Throw into the mix, no real competition, buyers could only really buy Land Rover if they wanted true off road ability, and the capability to repair it anywhere in the field, this is why the armies bought them for so long. Greedy workers, constant strikes, dodgy dealings, and fat cat bosses led to the current situation.
Typical examples of this can be seen with the Range Rover, a niche market with no opposition, instead of developing the brand they kept virtually the same vehicle until 1983. Two door, petrol engines, a choice of manual or auto boxes, that was it; want diesel, forget it, want 5 doors, forget it, keep banging it out.
Enter Toyota and Nissan into the fray, do you want petrol or diesel sir, three of five doors sir, manual or automatic sir, long or short wheelbase sir, do you want it for the family, or is it a working vehicle sir, we do a number of body styles sir, this says it all. Why don't we buy Land Rover? because many other vehicles do it better, cheaper, and reliably.
Daihatsu are a typical example, take the knowledge which makes a good off roader, incorporate it into one vehicle, make it at a reasonable price, and make it reliable; thats why we buy them instead of Land Rovers.

Sorry about getting on my soap box, but as a patriotic Englishman, and a senior manager, it grieves me to see this country develop so much, then give it away to everyone else, particularly to the detriment of British industry.

I agree

Assassin I agree again 100% with your views.

As a retired senior manager and Daihatsu and Mini classic owner and restorer I couldn't agree more but then look at most aspects of the former world leading position the UK had in so many industries, ship building, steel to name but two, all sadly now given away, as you say to the detriment of our own industrial past and present.

Yes I think we have all used this discussion as a soapbox but I'm sure we all find it agrivating, even those like me who were retired due to stress at 43 and couldn't afford to stay in the UK. Why was I stressed, simple, I had to deal with too much dead wood both above and below me and in the end it was that fact and lack of drive from others that gave me stress. Perhaps that is what is wrong with the UK now, it still has brilliant ideas and inventions but they are snapped up by entrepreners in other Countries who have the drive and are willing to back them. I think it was once called the "brain drain".

A typical example is the demise of Concorde, a world leader of our age paid for by us in taxes, now sadly retired to Museums throughout the world. Yes a little off the point of Land Rover v Daihatsu but none the less appropriate.

OLDMINIMAN

M J Young

I'm a big fan of both I

I'm a big fan of both Biggrin

I love sportraks for the fun factor and occasional offroading (even if I do get carried away) but also know its limits, on the other hand I have a Defender (90") just for offroading and it very rarely lets me down, the main difference I do find is that the Land Rover is far cheaper to run and maintain for example my last insurance quote was £90 for the LR and £400 for the Daihatsu, also parts are generally more expensive for the Daihatsu.

Having said that I am a big believer in just having fun. Lifes too short to argue over which is the best 4x4 and should be spent driving them whatever badge you have.

My sporty in action Wink
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5n4xyigaCCc

www.centraloffroadclub.co.uk for free fun offroading in the midlands

www.centraloffroadclub.co.uk for free fun offroading in the midlands

HEAR HEAR!!

AGREED !!Mind the insurance on the Daihatsu is a bit steep!!

OLDMINIMAN

M J Young

I have a friend that tows

I have a friend that tows using a Fourtrak with a twin-axle plant trailer and often tows 0ver 3 Tons on it (Tractors e.t.c.)He said that nothing tows like a Fourtrak and has on accasions towed out a Landrover stuck on a field with a horse box attached.
And yes they are not so noisy and super reliable as are all Diahatsu

I actually did some off road

I actually did some off road testing for a well known off roading magazine of the day, it involved a Defender, Land Cruiser, and Nissan Patrol. Results were interesting as the conclusion was that off road the Patrol won the day, it never got stuck, whereas the Defender did, but less times than the landcruiser.
This made me sit up and take notice, particularly as the off road course was testing for any out of the box vehicle, and all were brand new with only running in mileage on them. Several of the other testers were LR men, they made several excuses ranging from tyres to driving style, but as all were out of the box vehicles it made little difference. I made one casual remark, this was they were used to driving Defenders so there should be no excuse for it losing, as they were the supposed experts, and they should have got the Patrol stuck, which they did not.

If i had to make a choice it would be the Patrol, equal or better off road ability than a defender, and rather than a poor ride, i would prefer the leather seats, climate control on, and with my favourite CD's playing on the multi stack system.

Hi, I prefer the

Hi,
I prefer the fourtrak over the landrover for several reasons.
1/ More reliable
2/ Cheaper to buy and repair.
3/ More interior space and comfort.
4/ Very goog towing and off-road ability.
and finally the floors dont rust away.
Phil.