Forum:
Hi folks, I've got to ask...
Picked up my '90 Sportrak a few months ago and all seemed well. I had noticed a water "rushing" noise on start-up but thought nothing of it. I then noticed my expansion tank was empty so topped it up and the "rushing" went. I then found this website and am now paranoid. As the coolant had looked a bit rusty I drained it and flushed it through. In actuality the coolant looked fairly clean; must have been rusty on top of the rad and in the expansion only (who uses pink coolant?); I replaced it all with lovely blue coolant. I am not losing any noticable amounts of coolant, no creamy gunk in the oil, no obvious moisture in the exhaust and no overheating; don't know if its normal but on a long run the other day when it was cold outside the eng temp dropped fairly low (1/4) at motorway speeds and quickly rose to a normal (slightly < 1/2) when I slowed down. BUT there are slow bubbles forced into the expansion tank when the engine runs and I think it may smell of exhaust or petrol. Furthermore, there is a 4mm wedge of brown sludge under my rad cap and the expansion coolant is rusty again. Can this be something other than a head gasket or cylinder head problem? I thought one of the jobs of the expansion tank was to remove air, but I take it actual bubbles are not normal? I've been quoted £350 labour plus parts+skimming if req'd+VAT so I'm desperately hoping you clued in people can save me from my feeling of impending (expensive) doom.
Thanks for your time.
Heated
Sounds like an air lock in the system, firstly did you put the heater control onto the hot setting, if not the coolant will not fill the heater matrix, water will slowly fill it expelling air. This alone is a common mistake, water or water and air will come from the matrix and contaminate the new coolant.
Did you bleed the system, when filling the system it is prudent to raise the front of the vehicle higher than the rear, slowly fill the system with water/anti-freeze already mixed in a watering can; this eliminates most air. Thirdly, massage the radiator bottom hose to force air out as you are filling the system, then run the engine and bleed the system.
Certainly Head Gasket - but
Certainly Head Gasket - but £350 + parts + skimming (which WILL be needed) + vat is just plain cheeky. You should be looking at about £250-300 all in. Try another garage pronto!
It's not such a bad job to do yourself tho......
Dave with a Sporty
Dave with a Sporty
There are three
There are three possibilities.
1. The heater matrix is leaking. Coolant leaks away whilst the car is parked. On starting coolant is forced into the void in the matrix .... hence the whoooosh of water.Take a feel downside the propshaft tunnel to each side of the radio, down into the foot wells. Is the carpet wet? If its wet then the matrix is rotton and leaking. I see your sporty is a 1990 .... old enough to have a rotton matrix.
Note that coolant constantly flows through the heater matrix. The heater is controlled by flaps that open to allow air to be heated as it passes through the cowling which houses the heater matrix.
2. Water pump could be leaking. This will show as rust in the water, because the pumps bearing is rusty. There will be signs of leaking coolant.
3. Head gasket is blown. You will smell exhaust gas in the expansion tank. Bubbles are exhaust gas. Gunk on the oil filler etc.
Unfortunately either or all of the above could be causing the problem. My guess is its a head gasket.
PS.....
Expansion tank does what it says ... it takes the coolant expanding from the heated engine block. When the engine cools the coolant 'leaks' back into the engine block.
If the headgasket is blown, exhaust gas is forcing coolant into the expansion tank. It will expel coolant from the overflow. On cooling the expansion tank appears to have lost water.
PS .. Sporty does not need raising to remove air locks from the coolant system. There is no 'bleed' valve. Fill the radiator/expansion to the 'max' mark and run the engine until the radiator is warm, indicating the thermostat is open. Fully open the heater valves until the heater is 'hot'. Switch off the engine and let the engine go cold. Top up the expansion tank. Thats it .... job done.
Don't give up all hope
Having been unfortunate to own a rover
i have been through the joyous head gasket woes!
I can only suggest you exhaust other possibilites before forking out £250+ to replace it, because it may be pointless if something else is causing it.
> Replace the expansion tank lid (its about a fiver)
> Inlet manifold gasket, again a cheap easy job
> Bleed the system
> as said above check heather matrix and water pump
Is it mis firing at all? Or does it splutter on start-up, or stall on start up? These, unfortunately may indicate HG failure.
Alternatively, get it into the garage and have them do a (the name escpaes me, compression possibly) test, they basically check for exhaust gases in the engine block, this will indicate most of the time, a HG failure. If you have overheating, stop driving your car. You do not want to warp the head or worse crack the head.
Best of luck buddy!
Thanks for your responses
Thanks for your responses folks, sorry its taken me so long to reply - my broadband has been knackered. No leaks obvious anywhere, gunk under the rad cap, a bubble in the expansion tank every second or so; it sounds as if it is the inevitable HG; bummer. I think I'll try some steelseal first, its probably snake oil but worth a try. Anyone know of a good garage/mechanic near Salisbury, the few garages which have responded to my request for a quote have all come in at around £350 for labour alone?!? Thanks again.
Head Gasket
Firstly the Purple coolant is good stuff and whatever the colour as long as it has enough strength in to prevent freezing of coolant that is fine.
The sludge forming on the bottom of the bottom of the Rad cap and the re appearance of rustcould purly be the fresh and perhaps stronger anti freeze mix has cleaned the water jacket a bit more than the old stuff. The purple anti freeze wuld have probably been the original put in by Daihatsu when the car was built.
If the head gasket is blown it is usual to find a salad cream sludge on the inside of the oil filler cap and inside the cam cover. If it is severe it will be mixed with the oil and if left the water will separate and sit on the oil which should be visible on the dipstick.
Check the sealon the Rad cap. If the car is at operating temperature the top hose will be hard. If it is soft then the water is boiling off via the header tank. The seal allows the system to pressurise and prevent the water or coolant from boiling by having it held in the system under pressure. You can sometimes remove the seal at the bottom of the cap and flip it over and that may seal it if you find the hose soft.
You say that there is no visible sign of abnormal steam from the exhaust and that the car doesn't over heat. It is quite normal for the needle to sit to the left of normal and on cold mornings to sit a bit lower.
You could have air in the heater but if you are getting heat from it then I would say it is ok. The heaters are good so just warm would indicate and airlock but I have 2 Sportraks and have changed the Rad on one and Cambelts on both all of which involved removing the RAD and replacingthe new fluid and I have never had a problem with air locks.
If you are concerned then try all the cheap options first. If you still suspect the head then have a compression test first which should show up any leak.
Normally Head Haskets manifest themselves in a number of ways, steam, loss of power, water contamination in the oil and overheating, genrrally caused by water loss or superheated exhast gases getting into the water system. Since you seem to only have water loss which will cause a gushing sound as the water reduction isreplaced by steam and as it passes through the pump will be noisy and gushy.
I would be very suspect of the Rad cap and these are about a fiver. I have run a 1991 Sportrak since 1995 and have done 100k miles with no head gasket problem. I also have a 1996 Sportrak which has nearly 80k miles and no head gasket problem. I therefore do not accept the moans of some that these engines suffer from head gasket failure. The elderly Sportrak had an overheating problem which turned out to be a rotten radiator with the lawer fins dissappearing rapidly and reducing the cooling propeties of the system. Don't jump on head gasket problems until you have tried all other possibilites.
I would add that I run a numer of Rover/Austin Mini's( I restore them) and again have never had problems with their heads either.
OLDMINIMAN
M J Young