Biofuel in diesel wrecks engines ???????

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'92 Fourtrak 2.8 TDX

Hi all.

Re- Article in the Daily Mail, 6/5/08, page 32. Headline as above. Claims thousands of motorists could face huge repair bills, re -jellyfish like blobs that could destroy engines, a bacteria can breed in the storage tanks at garages, as the new diesel mix must contain 2.5% biofuel, problems are that the mix will clog filters,increase engine wear and destroy pipes and seals. And this all free of charge ( well included in the price of your diesel)from your garage fourcourt.

Any of you bio guys come across a problem with bacteria growth in your fuel tanks, is this a known problem, what can be done about this potential problem, re veg oil/diesel mixes or straight veg oil use.

Deep fat fryer

...a bit like our deep fat fryer then Wink

I've not noticed anything growing in veg oil before (in the kitchen) - I would have thought it was more likely to occur if the oil has bits of food particles in it.

Also 'er-outdoors has horses and gives them various oils (inc. cod liver) and I've never seen any growths on the oil around the rim of the containers.

1985 Veg oil burning Fourtrak "Rocky".

1985 Veg oil burning Fourtrak "Rocky".

The growth is a well known

The growth is a well known problem, been around for years.....Even happens with mothballed aircraft.

Keeping the tank full is the way to go.
Great fun if the new mix makes it worse:(

Huge problem for yachties

Diesel bugs live in the water at the bottom of the fuel tank. They consume a little diesel and make the water really thick, black and sticky, not to mention pretty darn stinky, too. Even a small amount of this gunk getting into the filter will bung it up faster than you can blink.

There are preparations available to kill the diesel bugs. 'Biobar' was one I used to use.

Diesel / Veg Oil Bugs

Well, some one must be a good sales person, my local parts store / garage / go faster outfit is selling 500ml cans of a diesel treatment claimed to eat bugs and yeasts that grow in diesel tanks and they have the Daily Mail article along side it, the counter sales guy , claims they are selling ! Unknw ! Unknw ! ?!!!!!!!!. The can states its for marine use. Is it a case of finding a use for a product on the back of a scare. Not many yachties around here.

Edward (ews) '92 Fourtrak 2.8 TDX

Watered Down Chips

You will not notice anything in the chip pan or deep fat fryer, this is because the fat does not contain water, the heat from the fat at these temperatures evaporates any water from wet potatoes.
Potatoes cooked in water are generally called boiled potatoes Hee Hee.

Diesel Bug

Diesel bug is a well known phenomonen in boating circles, but is less well known in aircraft, plant, and agricultural machinery which may be standing for long periods of time.
Diesel bug is a concoction of bacteria, yeasts, and various moulds, these are present in ALL diesel as well as other oil based fuels such as kerosene. Fuel tanks contain water as well as diesel, these live on top of the water, where the diesel sits and obtain the nutrients they need to survive from diesel fuel.
Bio-fuels do not contribute, nor are they responsible for diesel bug as it is already present, but boats are affected more due to their massive fuel tanks and operation in damp and varying climatic conditions. Warm climates, or a sudden warm spell can cause the bug to multiply, they die and the residue falls to the bottom of the tank to form a thick black sludge.
Motor vehicles are not prone to this condition as they do not hold the massive amounts of diesel fuel that boats do, add to this the fact that most garages have a good turn over of fuel, means that this is unlikely in cars.

Prevention is simple, every few years, clean out the fuel tank; drain the fuel and thoroughly clean and flush. Water forms in fuel tanks by condensation in the air space above the fuel, keeping the tank full reduces the airspace and lessens the amount of condensation forming. Having read the article in question, it is no more than scaremongering in an attempt to obtain a good headline and sell more papers.

The Bug JUST A THOUGHT

I agree but what also concerns me with winter coming on it the ability for these oils not to solidify in cold weather, a problem resolved in Diesel fuel during the 1986 freeze. I haven't noticed cooking oil having bugs but then we rarely use it but what I have noticed is it goes cloudy when very cold and on inspection has begun to solidify. Whether the properly made Bio fuels have an anti jelling additive I don't know but those adding cooking oil to their tanks should consider whether winter will produce similar problems.

OLDMINIMAN

M J Young

Buggered

To clarify the situation regarding diesel bug and gelling of diesel fuels.

Diesel bug does not occur in motor vehicles due to them not having the storage capacity of such things as boats, we have a few gallons, and not the tonnes of fuel a boat potentially has. Due to the size of their tanks, they have a considerable air space when compared to motor vehicles, this considerable air space is what allows large quantities of air to condensate, producing larger quantities of condensation, this turns to water and forms at the bottom of the tank. Motor vehicles also have the advantage of returning the excess fuel to tank, thus agitating it and mixing the water, this is seperated at the fuel filter.

Gelling of all bio fuel occurs in low temperatures, correctly refined fuels are less prone to the problem than incorrectly refined chip oils. Most people mix these fuels with standard road diesel, during the winter anti freeze additives are added to commercial diesel.
Generally; a 50-50 mix of correctly refined bio fuel and commercial diesel will generally give protection down to -10 degrees, whereas commercial diesel is guaranteed not to freeze before -15 degrees.
It is therefore proportional to how well refined the bio diesel is, and what mix with commercial diesel is used, other factors such as what blend of chip fat is obtained, and does it contain lard or palm oil will affect the resulting quicker gelling.

SVO

Hi,

I run my m reg fourtrak on SVO, i have an atg ktwo tank kit and a bio matrix induction heater. I can basicly run on oil within a minute of start up. I have had no problems, apart from the rediculous price of the oil now.
Has anyone else got any feedback on runnig SVO?

SVO

Not recommended, this is because it is not designed for combustion in engines, it lacks the cetane rating, and all the necessary additives for it to burn and operate correctly.

Fourtrak engines are better than most engines in the respect that they are designed to work on poor quality fuels, due to their worldwide operation. Fuel in many countries such as African nations is often stolen due to its rarity, this is why most tankers are escorted by armed guards. Fuel is often diluted with a variety of other locally available oils to make it go further, as well as stored and transported in any old rusty container. This is why the fuel system contains such things as oversized filters, and excellent water seperation in the fuel filter.

SVO

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