Forum:
Hi all,
This is my first post here but as my good lady is now on her second Sporty, I suspect it won't be my last.
OK. The reason for this post is that Sportrak overheating seems to be a very common problem going by the number of posts/threads on this forum. It's a problem which has plagued Sporty No2 ever since we got it but is now fixed and I thought I would share my experiences (or should that be relief).
We acquired this Sporty last summer without a MOT. On the drive to the test station she started to overheat and the heater was called into use to keep the temperature sensible.
My first thought was the thermostat but in removing the housing one of the bolts sheared off (*!*#). I decided to let my local garage remove the remainder of the bolt and fit the new stat. Also had them fit a new water pump (and timing belt) at the same time. Result - still overheated.
Early this year it suffered a coolant loss from the engine water outlet where it joins the heater matrix flow pipe. Didn't fancy removing the distributor so back to the garage it went. Good news! The garage found that the engine water outlet was blocked on the side that feeds the radiator top hose. Testing showed a vast improvement but still a tendency to get hot.
Last week, Ali (the better half) took the Sporty on a drive from Norfolk to Essex - a much longer drive than it normally does. She got about 50 miles and it boiled over. The VERY VERY VERY nice RAC man diagnosed the radiator cap, replaced it and sent her on her way. When she came back a few days later, same problem! This time she managed to limp home over the course of several hours.
Now my wife had tried to cool the engine using the heater as before but could
get no heat from it so I suspected a circulation problem but decided to be thorough.
I removed the radiator top hose and the heater hose from next to the stat housing. Connected a hosepipe to the top hose. Result: Water gushed from heater hose and from the block where it had previously been connected. Conclusion: Cylinder block and top hose assy not plugged.
Removed stat and tested in hot water. Result: Stat opens and closes right on specifications. Conclusion: Stat fine.
I removed the radiator and checked it for flow, result: Water flowed out the bottom as fast as I could fill it. Then I laid the rad over at about 30 degrees and filled the rad with hot water via the bottom hose assy. When water started to flow out the top hose tube I felt the rad all over for temperature, result: Hot all over - no cool spots. Conclusion: Rad is fine.
Next I removed the water pump to see if the impellor blades were furred up. Clean as a whistle. Conclusion: Water pump is fine.
Right. Now I'm starting to get flummoxed. No restriction in flow. No mechanical failures I can find. Maybe it was just an airlock. Okay then, reassemble and test drive. Result: Same freakin problem although the heater is working really well now so I know the pump is circulating.
Starting to doubt myself a bit I question if the rad, although flowing well, is providing a resistance to flow just enough to make the water want to go through the heater matrix instead. Also, having read many of the threads here I'm starting to worry about the cylinder head. The lady loves the car so I'm authorised to start spending some money. As I'd never put a new cylinder head on an aging radiator, the radiator is less expensive and much less work - I decide to get the radiator recored first.
Express Radiators in Norwich did a great job and in a hurry for me as the car is needed (really needed) after the weekend, so a big thank you to those guys.
Refit the radiator (again), test drive. Result: Aarrrrrgh! Still overheating.
Now I'm in desperately deep denial about the cylinder head. I decide to remove the stat and test drive without one. Result: Temp guage bearly moves of the big 'C' on the left. Conclusion: The performance of the cooling system is capable of totally outstripping the engines ability to produce heat.
This posed a new question. If the stat was fine when tested, why does it appear to be blocking circulation through the radiator? Well another thread on here pointed out that a stat he got from a motor factor was not identical to the original and on buying one from a Daihatsu dealer his problem vanished. Now; we never got around to disposing of Sporty No1. We always toyed with the idea of using it purely for off road or as a donor vehicle. So last night I hatched me a plan and this morning I removed the stat from Sporty No1 for comparison. The shroud was in the same position which was the difference found in the other thread. I decided to heat test them both together. Result: Both open and close at the same time and by the same amount.
HOLD ON A COTTON PICKIN MO!
When the two stats are placed side by side the suspect one appears a little longer. Inverting one against the other confirms that from the sealing plate to the bottom, the original from Sporty No1. is about 4mm shorter.
Decide to fit stat from Sporty No.1 into Sporty No.2. Result: WhooHoo!!! Overheating problem has gone away.
Okay - if you made it this far I apologise for all the rambling and beating around the bush. So here's my point.
Although a cursory comparison may not show any difference, the devil is most certainly in the detail where these stats are concerned.
Daihatsu have really pulled a master stroke here. Traditionally, the stat is between the engine outlet and the rad and hence only measures the temperature ot the water LEAVING the engine. The setup we have on the Sporty measures the temp of the water ENTERING the engine (which is far more important) and only mixes the heater matrix return/bypass with as much cool water from the rad as is necessary to maintain optimum inlet temp. As such a relatviely cool bottom hose is not abnormal because the rad will be cooling water far faster than the stat demands it. The water therefore stays in the rad even longer and cools even further. This highlights just how important a good antifreeze is. In cooler weather the water in the radiator could easily be chilled below freezing causing the rad to split (ironically a rad in good condition may be at a greater risk than one on it's last legs).
Right. That's my sequel to War and Peace completed. A big thanks to all those whose threads gave me food for thought and I hope this will do the same for others.
Regards all,
SixFingersMike
Next time use the search function.
montgom3
If you had taken time to use the search function on this site you would discover the thermostat length has been clarified on several occassions. The daihatsu thermostat has a reach which stretches into the engine block. 'Smaller' reach thermostat only fill the casting so not reaching into the coolant within the block. Lack of reach means the hot coolant will not heat the wax and the thermostat does not open correctly. You must also fit the thermostat with the jiggle uppermost to evacuate any trapped air.
Really helpful response
Gee,thanks Mace. I really never considered searching the forum for my problem. Why is there always some smart **** who assumes that you haven't searched for details on the problem at hand.
It just so happens that I've been all over this site, and the only reference I found was a chance comment that someone seemed to remember that since 1989 or 90 a shorter thermostat was used. Hardly detaile
d (no offense to the poster - I'm sure it stirred something up top).
Seriously Mace, if that's what you consider an appropriate response I strongly suggest you don't bother. My post was a detailed description of MY problem which I thought might be useful to others, and I acknowledged the posts which had helped me. Isn't mutual help what the forum is about - my mistake; clearly it's about feeling good by shooting others down.
Regards,
SixFingersMike
Furthermore. Your reply suggests that you think my thermostat was too SHORT. I think I made it clear that it was about 4mm TOO LONG.
montgom3
hi, what you please must realise, like any forum, alot of us have been on here for years n years, and these things have already been discussed to death on this forum, although what you wrote is really good, believe me...its been covered, so as mace suggested all you have to do is really search the site via google-as thats better and you probably would have come across the issue easy enough, dont forget these vehicles are really old so problems with them have all been posted, thanks for a good write up though, im sure someone will find it handy, regards neil.
Full of ideas but no time to do them!!
www.bloodredoffroad.com
www.milneroffroad.com
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I enjoyed your post
Montgom3,
I don't have the vehicle you posted about but I enjoyed the write up - you plainly put in a lot of effort, which makes it outstanding in it's own right. I like to add all things to my knowledge and your post did that. Well done.
Forums work well when people inject good writing, intelligence, a conclusion to a post, a sense of humour, and the sense the poster is genuinely offering some selfless insight. Your post ticked all the boxes. If it goes over old ground, so what. It adds to the sum of all parts. It is all good.
I feel your annoyance.
Regards
Hi Neil (nice to meet you),
Hi Neil (nice to meet you),
Appreciate what you say, and more importantly how you put it. I actually found my way to this site by googling the problem (google's usually my first port of call for anything online) and when here tried a myriad of searches. As I'm sure you're aware, there are a lot of threads about overheating Sportys and believe me I did read all those I could find - several times. I don't recall any of those I read highlighting (as I hope mine did) that there are some stats out there that are just a few millimeters too LONG be it they are wrongly supplied or poorly made, and it's very easy to not notice the difference.
If I'd posted "Help - My Sporty's overheating what can I do?" then I would have deserved mace's response, but I didn't ask questions or for advice. I was hoping to be helpful to those that follow by pointing out something which I had not come across in any of the posts I could find - what's so wrong with that?(rhetorical).
Think this is getting a bit off-topic so would like to draw a line under this now, but my objection to mace's response was the automatic assumption that I hadn't researched this and also that his post suggested that he had not properly read mine before trying to slap me down.
Best Regards
SixFingersMike
One thing often overlooked
One thing often overlooked with stats in general is their reaction times, these vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, and the Toyota OE components react very quickly when compared to aftermarket manufacturers stats. This is an important consideration with any overheating problem, particularly with the Toyota engines of this era as they were low emissions engines when compared to similar engines of this vintage, due mainly to running hotter and burning many emissions.
montgom3
Thanks for your advice. I see you have been registered on the Sporty website for 1day 20hours.
After 9years and 12weeks spending hours writing detailed advice and emailing photo-copies of diagrams from my workshop manual to numerous grateful members, I bow out and will let you take the driving seat since you seem to have such expert opinion.
:mad:
Mace, I'm not really
Mace,
I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make by stressing how long you've been here, and I certainly don't doubt that over the years you've helped out many others - indeed some of the posts I read before posting myself, were in fact yours. I don't question your dedication to the forum or to helping others and I don't believe I implied it either.
But think about this for a second (please). If a 9 year veteran like yourself can take offense to what I posted in reply to yours (and judging from the emoticon, you did), how might a 'newbie' feel when reading your post?
I didn't like your response and in return you didn't like mine. Can I suggest we do the mature thing and let this go. Genuine offer of e-handshake enclosed. If not, then can we keep this off topic and do it by PM please.
Regards
SixFingersMike
seriously guys....
thankyou montgom for posting this thread, i have found it very informative and will keep an eye on this when i put the sportrak engine back together, as i shall probably replace the thermostat while its all apart.
why moan about a forum member posting such informative posts, grow up theres more to life than moaning about something like this.
i have been searching this forum frequently for answers and to be frank its very poorly laid out and the search function is diabolicle (spelling). even google searching isnt that much kop on this forum half the time, this is by far the worst forum i have used and i have used a few in the past for various cars that i have owned, montgom thankyou for this thread and i hope it doesnt make you refrain from posting more useful stuff in the future.