Forum:
Hi All
'91 TDX Fourtrak (5 Speed Box)
I am sure I have a problem developing, advice needed ?????
This problem has arisen three times, in identical situations.
All gears can be selected stationary, with engine running and stopped. Reverse detent works correctly
Scenario- I reverse out of my drive, select 1st,change to 2nd,stop at junction, select 1st,change, pullaway to 2nd,change to 3rd,go to change down to 2nd, its blocked (will not select,no movement into selector),1st is also blocked,so have to reselect 3rd and slip the clutch, pull up the incline at the T junction and stop. (moving gearstick across the neutral position do's not help to reselect 2nd gear)) 1st will now select and engage,2nd will select and engage,slow and engage 1st at mini roundabout.All now okay. On the odd occasion 2nd gear will allso refuse to be selected during my travels. Very frustrating !!!!!. No problems with selecting other gears.
Many Thanks
Edward (ews)
Gear Selectors
I think you could have one of there problems.
A worn clutch although I suspect that this this would show BY SLIPPING if it was that bad
or
Worn Selector Linkage/gear.Normally selectors effect combinations of gears rather than just first and second
OR
Worn syncromesh: I hade the same on a Mini and it turned out to be a sloppy cog due to a distroyed ball race, the remains being in the sump. This prevented the sync from working properly.
Have you tried "double de Clutch" on 2nd and 1st. This allows the cogs to slow and engagement is easier. When cars had no syncro on the 1st and 2nd box, then this was one way of getting over it. On older cars with no syncro, often called "Crash Boxes" it was difficult to engage gears without "double de clutch" both ways. The angeling of gears to allow easier syncromeshing of rotating gears has made life a lot easier.
OLDMINIMAN
M J Young
clutch
father inlaw had same prob on his car turned out to be clutch his would jam in gear sometime, like the reply above i'd try double clutching and just give a little rev as u change gear also helps.
bill
Same again today
Hi All.
Same scenario today,Blocked on change down to 2nd and 1st. Been out driving all day ,lots of slow speed and low gear selections down in the Forest of Dean and no futher problems,but bet the same thing will happen again.Clutch is okay.
I had already tried double declutching, used to a '51 L/R with only synhcro on 3rd and 4th.
The gear stick, is blocked from selecting ,there is no gear grinding. When the problem arises,
the gear stick will move left to right,but will not move for and aft, to engage 1st or 2nd,so I have to select 3rd. If the I fail to engage 1st or 2nd and just roll up to the junction,stop then I can engage 1st with no problem,change to 2nd with no problem, then the problem seems to to disapear and during the drive will only occasionaly or not appear again that day.
Thinking out loud, my old Land Rover's gear stick had ball on the end, which moved up and down/across the selectors,which then moved the forks thus selecting the gear combination. Has the Fourtrak got a similar stick,could this ball shape be worn and not slipping into the selector slots.
Gear box oil levels correct, and changed 2 weeks ago, problem was there before oil change. Magnetic plug had minimal amount of swarf attached, and no debris in oil.
Edward.
Edward (ews) '92 Fourtrak 2.8 TDX
Still the same
It does sound like a linkage problem or the synchro although I would be pretty certain theat the synchro would effect a different combination than 1 & 2 so I am leaning to ward a linkage problem.
I have only experience on the Sporty but my recollection is that the stick is based on the same principle as the Land Rover with a sprung nylon ball and metal socket on the rod. You could try greasing it up . I suspect you will have to drop the box out and delve deeper i'm afraid. I am sure another memeber will be able to offer advice on how to get to the linkage once you have the box out or you could take it to a gearbox garage dependant how brave you are with gearboxes.
I do have problems with both of my Sporties when cold in 1st and 2nd but they do engage with a bit of force and I have concluded that the oil is too thick when cold, not much help here as your new oil didin't improve or worsten the problem.
OLDMINIMAN
M J Young
Gear selection problem. Update
Update on this problem.
I removed the gear stick assembly to see if there was wear on the ball end of the stick.A liitle wear, a slight flat on the left to right sides (as throw of stick)
I have not removed the box to see if the linkage is functioning correctly. (Re Assasins post)
I now have extreme difficulty to engage 2nd gear on down shift or up shift, very lucky if even double declutch enables me to select 2nd, baulking and grinding ,if lucky engagement takes place.
I have drained gearbox oil, (as per spec) this was replaced just prior to original posting,so has done only a few thou miles. When the new oil had drained ito the pan a noticable sheen was apparent,copper/bronze in colour on the surface of the drained oil, no debris on the magnetic plug.
I drive using engine braking, rather than the brakes ,so 2nd gear tends to take a lot of braking forces, ( hope this makes sense) possible putting stresses , through thrust bearings and other components
Let me have your thoughts on all this ????.
My own thoughts are that the syncro ring for 2nd gear is failing or and a related thrust bearing ,( not to well up on gearboxs).
I have read at some time , in a article on buying used Fourtraks,that 2nd gear problems are quite common,due to the use to which these fantastic trucks are put to, re towing trailers. All other gear selections are okay, no noises are apparent, except for those related to selecting 2nd gear.
So , as I do not have the facilities, or the time to remove the box,(I am the PA for a quadraplegic lady ,she thinks 'Chunky' is the best and she's been offroad in her, and so do I) or the knowledge to rebuild the gearbox, any one have any idea what the cost of a gearbox rebuild would be, (replace the clutch plates at the same time,as original), assuming a garage would undertake whole job ??????. (what is a length of a piece of string !!!!) .
Thoughts any one !!!!!!!!.
Edward. (ews)
Update- Today 'Chunky' decided to start slipping out of 2nd gear on de-acceleration, after a power on-power off situation. Oil cold
Update- Finding this problem seems to disapear when gearbox oil has heated up. have just complete a run Bristol to Plymouth return, at motorway speeds plus limit at times, no gearbox noise,and when box oil seems to have heated up the selection problem is not apparant.????. Oil is 75-90 EP or similar spec. What oil do you use???.
Edward (ews) '92 Fourtrak 2.8 TDX
could be clutch drag, check
could be clutch drag, check your clutch is fully disengaing, if not could be oil on the friction plate causing it to stick to the pressure plate, also check your tickover speed, mine does this if the tickover is around 900
Selection
Sounds like the gear selector mechanism, this is an aluminium housing located on top of the gearbox, into which the gearstick locates. Inside this is the three selector rods, the gearstick moves from side to side, and for and aft, there are pawls within the mechanism to ensure the right selector rod is selected, it sounds like the pawls, or the springs are damaged, this will not allow the mechanism to select the right rod, and jam up against the casing intermittantly.
To remove this without removing the gearbox is as follows;
Remove the gearstick trim inside the vehicle, and slide the rubber boot up the gearstick, inside the gearstick entry is a circlip, remove this and pull the gearstick out.
Undo the rear gearbox crossmember and lower the gearbox carefully, locate the housing and remove the bolts, this will, with a little jiggling, come out complete with the gear selector forks. turn this over and insert the gearstick, you can operate the mechanism with the gearstick and identify the problem.
Mechanisms are connected together with roll pins, ensure one has not worked free and is binding, or has snapped inside.