Forum:
I have a 2005 Sirion 4trak with the k3-ve2 engine. When it was serviced last year the parts counter (motor factor, not dealer) advised Denso plugs, rather than the NGKs also listed in the manual, due to running problems on this engine. Has anyone come across problems with NGKs in this engine as they are considerably cheaper than Denso? I don't drive on the limit very often so out and out performance isn't an issue but I don't want plugs that are going to cause a problem. Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks guys, that is pretty
Thanks guys, that is pretty much what I thought, I was surprised when they recommended not to use NGK as I've used them before on other vehicles with no problems. I've certainly noticed no difference between the Denso in the car now and whatever was in there before. I'll give NGK a go then.
Andy Palmer
2005 Sirion 4trak
I'm quite into Sparkplugs!
I'm quite into Sparkplugs! Done a lot of research and testing of various brands and types over the years.
Although any differences are never going to be huge, As far a i'm concerned every little helps especially with small engines.
NGK are my favorite and always seem a slightly better made plug than Denso, (from a build quality point of view) Denso still good though, 2nd place.
Would never go near a Champion, really poor quality these days.
Bosch are OK.
Copper plugs still outperform platinum and iridium in terms of good spark quality. The only reason platinum or iridium are now popular with the OEM's is for much longer service life, ideal for todays long service intervals or engines that have awkward to change plugs.
I prefer to use the best performing copper plug and change it more often, they are not expensive.
I believe the specified NGK for the Sirion/YRV 1.3 is BKUR6ETB-10, which is standard copper, 3 ground electrodes, semi surface discharge (helps any carbon fouling issues, they are self cleaning) and a preset gap of 1.0mm (that is what the 10 means)
Multi electrode plugs are good because the wear is spread out over the electrodes, You still only get one spark, but the spark will choose the closest one or easiest one to fire across.
They also place the spark a little deeper into the combustion chamber which is more efficient and, the centre electrode is not shrouded over the top by the ground electrode (like a single electrode conventional plug), exposing the spark better.
You could also use NGK BKUR6ET (which is identical apart from a smaller 0.8mm preset gap)
Also there is BKUR7ET, (one heat range colder, This could be wise on a modded or driven hard Rally/YRV turbo for example, also the 0.8mm gap of these can help against spark blow out if you start raising boost, high boost can often require smaller spark gaps)
All the above are Resistor plugs, which are used by all OEM's these days. They help reduce any electrical interference that may cause some electical items to go a bit crazy, like mobile phones, sat navs, radio reception etc.
However there are slight power/response/economy gains from using non-resistor plugs (without the "R" in the part number), But it's just a case of testing them out to check there is no funny situations caused by RFI interference.
Its something i would probably try out on these engines as i always like to fiddle!
I have never come across non-resistor plugs causing any interference problems in the engines I have tried them on. Especially with the plugs being buried deep they are shielded in the center of cylinder head on most modern engines.
Although i have to admit i have not tried non-resistor plugs on a coil per plug engine.
NGK BCP6ET (standard heat) and BCP7ET (cooler) are non-resistor yet still have the same 3 ground electrodes like the orginals, £3 each Ebay
BK7EKU is a very nice plug, non resistor, 2 Electrodes, and semi surface discharge. About £5 each.
They would be the ones I would try out on the 1.3/Turbo to see if non-resistor plugs have any benefits. I use them on the GTti. Cheap as well.
If there is any non-resistor interfernce issues with the 1.3/Turbo then the worst case scenario is you have spent £10-£20 trying it out!
Ive got dozens of new old stock BCP7ET's here if anyone wanted a set to test.
A splendid post
This is a really good post Nathan.
I too have found over many years that NGK are consistently reliable.
At a bike show I managed to corner a proper NGK engineer (not a b-s salesman), got him by the throat figuratively and asked him how long a three-electrode NGK plug should last in normal service before the possibility of deteriorating performance set in. Through gritted teeth he said '18k miles'.
Thus with this info I have ever since used three-electrode NGKs in all our vehicles and change them after about 18k miles. None has ever missed a beat and performance and petrol consumption have remained consistently excellent.
YRV Tony
Yes they do last pretty well
Yes they do last pretty well being 3 electrode, For the cheap price I change them more often than you need to to ensure the centre electrode has still got sharp edges..
It's not so much the centre electrode wearing down much, but the fact that the centre electrode tends to wear oval/rounded at the top on these type of plugs, and they cant be gapped easily.
Hi Nathan, Myself and
Hi Nathan,
Myself and Daihatsu Dave have been looking into Spark Plugs on the YRV Turbo. I had a set of NGK-PFR-7B plugs in the garage which when I had my Scooby STi in for a service with a Garage wouldn't fit and put me in the NGK PFR-6b plugs in instead
Looking up the Code on the Scooby plugs, they actually are the same but with a different code. Been running with these colder (rated 7) plugs for a year now, and no issues, in-fact I think it gives the engine better performance. Before I tried the Iridium plugs from NGK, and couldn't tell any difference over the OEM ones before them.
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'12' Plate Mazda MX-5 2.0 litre NC 3.5 Venture Roadster 160BHP
'15' Plate SEAT LEON 184 FR TDI. 240BHP/500nm Torque.
Past: '53' Plate Yellow YRV Turbo Approx. 150BHP
Good, Yes a NGK 7 heat range
Good, Yes a NGK 7 heat range (same as Denso 22, Bosch 5) I can see as a much safer option on a YRV Turbo.
With a Turbo you want to run the coldest plugs you can without getting any fouling.
Trying a non resistor is where there could be a extra gain with spark quality.
Try some BK7EKU's
I'll put some photos up here of various plugs i have here in a couple of hours, got to go out for a bit now.
Here is
Here is BCP7ET, 0.8mm preset gap. (these were used on some 80's/90's Euro performance engines such as Peugeot 405 Mi16/Citroen Bx16 valve and Fiat Uno Turbo, also often prefered on Audi Turbo Quattros:
http://imageshack.us/g/641/dsc09939r.jpg/
and BK7EKU (not sure what these were used on):
http://imageshack.us/g/339/dsc09945u.jpg/
Note the huge spark gap on these (1.5mm). This is because they are semi-surface discharge type.
In normal conditions the spark will fire at the tip across the large gap. If there is fouling or weak spark, then the spark can discharge across the ceramic and jump the smaller 0.8mm gap between ceramic and ground electrode)
You will notice the centre electrode is thinner diameter, this makes it easier to spark with the bigger gap (still a normal type material not platinum or Iridium)
Clever stuff.
I have heard that the thinner electrodes normally seen with platinum or Iridium plugs is a way they they manage to get around the problem of these materials not wanting to spark as well as conventional plugs.
Here is non-resistor (0 ohms) vs. Resistor (approx 5000ohms)
http://imageshack.us/g/841/dsc09994u.jpg/
Pretty obvious which one will spark the biggest!
I've messed with different
I've messed with different plugs over the years with the GTti and now the YRV. Tried every type and brand and its all sixes and sevens.
Nology Silver plugs were good but the GTti ate them like it did its recomended special std plug which i think it shared with the Lotus Esprit.
The YRV Turbo plug is unique to it...its nearest being one of the set for the Alfa twin spark, just doesnt have the "U" in BKUR6EKPA (NGK). Noticed NGK now list the Turbo as having a BKR6EP-8?
I'm currently using Denso Iridiums VK20Y...dont expect anything to run better performance wise but just last hell of alot longer.
Not too sure but having no resister might damage the ignitor and/or the coil pencils....not worth risking for me i'm afraid.
The resistor would hold back power, giving the ignitor an easier ride to produce it?
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Current- 04 Silver YRV TURBO
Past- 91 Charade GTti, 89 Charade GTti, 98 1.3 Hi-Jet.
A friend in need is a friend indeed, a friend always in need, an Effin nuisance
Silver plugs are very poor
Silver plugs are very poor lasting, which is why you had problems, nothing to do with the GTti eating them, they last like that on all cars!
As a matter of interest, The nology silver plugs are non-resistor, that's the main reason they feel good, not so much the silver.
The sirion/YRV BKUR6ETB-10 plug is basically same as used on many cars (BKUR6ET) , but with a wider preset gap. Although i have seen BKUR6ET-10 (same but without B on the end) in halfords so that plug must also be popular.
YRV turbo plug now listed with the "8" on the end...0.8mm plug gap, Wise for a turbo engine to prevent spark blow out.
The alfa plug is a little different without the U, with means semi-surface discharge. No real problem.
Id be very surprised if you have any probs with non resistor, and even more surprised if it actually damaged anything. IN fact it wont.
Otherwise everyday electical sensitive items would be failing all around us all day long.
If you were to find any running fault, then you just have to swap back to all plugs and all would be good again.
Denso Iridiums only go in one place now for me now, The bin!
A slightly wobbly tip on a IW22 has put me off Denso. Plus the spark with conventional/iridium/ single electrode is not firing quite as deep enough into the combustion chamber like Daihatsu intended.